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mainecoder 4 hours ago [-]
Anyone commenting please watch the video first. Would a reasonable jury determine this to be Attempted Second-degree Murder? perhaps it is, any thoughts from a person with criminal law experience? We clearly see the car turning, going out of its way towards the person. Additionally, a pursuit on foot would have been possible the car qualifies as a deadly weapon in this case I think.
Terr_ 2 hours ago [-]
> criminal law experience
So IANAL, let alone a trial-lawyer, but I did spend weeks/days with 11 other people listening/deliberating after a cop-adjacent defendant non-fatally shot somebody.
> Attempted Second-degree Murder?
Hold up, what this means varies by state: Illinois law says that second-degree still requires an intent to kill [0], and I think the prosecution may have a hard time proving beyond reasonable doubt that the driver intended to turn the victim into road-splatter.
In contrast, the next step down of (attempted?) "Involuntary Manslaughter and Reckless Homicide" seems much easier to prove, and explicitly draws in a surprising number of vehicle-related details.
"intent" is not what you're representing. You don't have to be a lawyer to understand using lethal force will result in death.
A reasonable person would expect severe injury or death from running somebody over, and that is enough to satisfy 'intent.'
"Caaarl!! THAT KILLS PEOPLE!" "How was I supposed to know stabbing him 37 times in the chest would do that?"
ShowalkKama 2 hours ago [-]
>Would a reasonable jury determine this to be Attempted Second-degree Murder?
would you?
I would certainly consider him guilty, if not of exactly that crime.
lux-lux-lux 2 hours ago [-]
> Would a reasonable jury determine this to be Attempted Second-degree Murder?
No, because it’s a law enforcement officer doing it.
mandeepj 2 hours ago [-]
> No, because it’s a law enforcement officer doing it.
Possible! Many police officers have gone to jail for murdering people.
FireBeyond 3 hours ago [-]
Not to mention the "re-positioning" of the victim's vehicle to shore up ICE's narrative.
Don't worry though, just like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50090246 someone will be along to say "mistakes are inevitable, but we need to enforce immigration law, and this is an acceptable price, though not ideal".
hn_acker 5 hours ago [-]
The original title is:
> ICE’s Lies About A Man Officer Ran Over Undone By Footage Captured By Nearby CCTV Camera
So IANAL, let alone a trial-lawyer, but I did spend weeks/days with 11 other people listening/deliberating after a cop-adjacent defendant non-fatally shot somebody.
> Attempted Second-degree Murder?
Hold up, what this means varies by state: Illinois law says that second-degree still requires an intent to kill [0], and I think the prosecution may have a hard time proving beyond reasonable doubt that the driver intended to turn the victim into road-splatter.
In contrast, the next step down of (attempted?) "Involuntary Manslaughter and Reckless Homicide" seems much easier to prove, and explicitly draws in a surprising number of vehicle-related details.
[0] https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ILCS/details?MajorTopic=RIG...
A reasonable person would expect severe injury or death from running somebody over, and that is enough to satisfy 'intent.'
"Caaarl!! THAT KILLS PEOPLE!" "How was I supposed to know stabbing him 37 times in the chest would do that?"
would you?
I would certainly consider him guilty, if not of exactly that crime.
No, because it’s a law enforcement officer doing it.
Possible! Many police officers have gone to jail for murdering people.
Don't worry though, just like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50090246 someone will be along to say "mistakes are inevitable, but we need to enforce immigration law, and this is an acceptable price, though not ideal".
> ICE’s Lies About A Man Officer Ran Over Undone By Footage Captured By Nearby CCTV Camera